(Indrajit Gupta): I wanted to kind of extend that question, to really look at To look at, to be creative and to be innovative, is spirituality really the answer? I’ll… I’ll set the context. Whenever the issue of spirituality comes up, I notice there are lots of people even in this some in this room, who tend to connote religious connotations; at least, spirituality carries religious connotations for them. (Sadhguru): See, let me define ‘spirituality’ first of all, because there’s a whole this is the most corrupt word on the planet, most corrupted word on the planet. People have used and mis-used it in so many different ways. So our one of our by-lines used to be, ‘Isha – To live and to live totally.’ So if I say, ‘live and live totally’, somebody thinks he must party seven days of the nigh… week. No, am not saying about partying. You party because, you can only live in the evening. You can only live, if you put something into you. No, I am talking about, ‘live’ means – see life is not in your work, life is not in your family, life is not in the world around you. Life is here, this is life isn’t it? To become absolutely alive We do not know whether you will become a, the richest man in the world or not, or whether you will explore the whole cosmos or not, before you fall dead, at least you must know this piece of life you should know in its entirety. Whatever you wish to do – whether you want to run a industry or a business, or simply you want to close your eyes and sit, for whichever purpose – the most important thing is you must know this piece of life in its entirety. This is all I did all my life. People ask me – you know this is a very American question; people come up with this The American people come up to me, ‘Sadhguru, this is not fair. We… I’ve been doing yoga for twenty-five years. Nothing happened to me. You just went and sat on a rock and things happened to you. This is not fair.’ So I tell them, ‘See, the only sadhana that I did in my life is to remain uneducated.’ It is not an easy thing. I am not speaking in any disrespect to education. To remain uneducated is not easy, because from the first moment you are born, your parents, all the adults around you, the teachers and just about everybody in the world is always trying to teach you something that has not worked in their life. You can clearly see it’s not worked in their life. Because, if you see how they were, when they were five years of age and how they are at thirty-five or forty – they’ve become joyless, long-faced, stressed – obviously nothing has worked. Maybe they gathered, maybe they plundered the world and heaped it up behind them, but life has not worked. So something that’s not worked, they want to preach to everybody. So to remain uneducated, not to be influenced by your parents, by your family, by your culture, by your religion, by your society, by your teachers, just to remain absolutely uneducated means you just remain the way Creator intended you to be, the way life is, not the way the society is. So, if you remain like this, you will naturally know this life in its entirety. You understand this, if you want to use any gadget you want to use your cell phone, the more you know about it, the better you can use it, isn’t it? This is ‘spirituality’. You are not going to rest till you know this piece of life in its entirety. If you know this absolutely, you do what you can do. When you do what you can do, people think it’s miraculous. People think you know people go about keeping keep telling me, ‘Sadhguru, you are super-human.’ I keep reminding them, this is not about being super-human, this is about realizing ‘being human’ is super. The immensity of being human is been completely lost, simply because people are busy wanting to do something. See, if you want that mango tree, outside, to yield, you don’t have to do mango meditation. If you sit there and dream mangoes, mangoes are not going to come. You just have to think of soil, manure, water, sunlight, like he is going about telling them you know, simple things that everybody knows but nobody does. What he’s telling, it’s not that they don’t know, but they don’t do. Everybody knows these things, but nobody does it. So, people do mango meditation. In yoga, we say, ‘If your one eye is on the goal, you have only one eye to find your way, which is an inefficient way to find your way. If your… both your eyes are finding the way, you will efficiently find your way.’ How far you go depends on who you are. So if your work or what you’re doing is important for you, who you are needs to be worked at. But, you’re only work at something outside. You’re constantly working at your industry, at your business and stuff, but you’re never working at yourself. Who you are needs to be worked at – not just your knowledge, not your capability, not information, not tricks. But who you are, essentially needs to be worked at. If this one thing is worked at, without enhancing the capacity of what this is, the calibre of what you do is not going to rise. It cannot rise, isn’t it? You cannot make a Maruti 800 do a Formula One race; you need the right kind of machine. (Indrajit Gupta): Most right. Professor, we tend to get obsessed with this whole concept of ‘super humans’, the cult of the CEO. You studied business leaders around the world. One man that probably epitomizes innovation, is Steve Jobs, right? We celebrated Steve Jobs when he was alive. Today when he is gone there are large question marks about whether Apple can retain its innovative spirit and its vitality. Is that a wrong path? I had a conversation with Sadhguru on this. He’s very uncomfortable he said about the whole cult of a genius of one man really being identified with a highly successful, high performance company. Where do you stand? (Ram Charan): See if I get the question right, first thing is that most people don’t know Steve Jobs. I had the honor of having assisted the Chairman of DuPont to bring him back. Nobody wants to hire a Steve Jobs. He was the last resort. We went through motions should we bring him or not. He was a person who was thrown out of a factory at two o’ clock in the morning because he never shared never showered for nine days. He was seen as abusive temperament, everything else. This is the same human being who comes back and takes a defunct company into most valuable company. First thing I want you to know he never called himself an innovator. I have that in writing. He called himself ‘master connector’. He came to the company and he said, ‘I want to focus on hundred people.’ And he did. He recruited another person to run the rest of the company. Now here is the simple thing every Monday, fifty weeks a year, four hours, fourteen years, seven hundred times he focused on four products that’s athletic practice. These people sat in that room and they learned from the master how to connect – connect software, connect hardware, connect what the consumer will… will want, connect to glass, connect matter and the aesthetic designers. So those skills have been transferred. They are there, they have fired one guy, one… second one is in the process going out, out of the fourteen people trained. Before he died he said his objective was to have an organization that will continue. He had a special know-how that will never be replicated. So all of us need to think about it’s not the cult, it’s how you create you’re creating the organization that goes for perpetuity and perpetuity means it reforms as the times change. My belief is Apple will reform as the times change. It may not be same peak but it is professionalized because I know the people who they are. And I see no reason it will not continue because in this DNA of Apple the change is built in so that will continue. (Indrajit Gupta): You used a beautiful term ‘Master Connector’. I have a question on that because interdisciplinary thinking in some ways lies at the core of what you’re saying of innovation. When people here, entrepreneurs and business leaders look to build their own top team, they need to draw the best that’s the way from HR, from Tech and Finance. One of the issue the realities of the Indian environment is that a lot of functional heads don’t often have a business orientation. How do you deal with that? HR person knows HR but doesn’t care about how the business is run. (Ram Charan): It is in the context of innovation? (Indrajit Gupta): Well. I am saying that if you want to build solutions that are truly innovative, you would have to draw from (Ram Charan): I think I could take you through this; this is not in publications yet. And you begin to see these companies that have made it simple; how many of you heard of LEGO? LEGO? He simplified it; it’s not in public domain yet. First I want you to know generating an idea is an invention. Thomas Alva Edison said the same thing, Steve said the same thing. Today you can buy ideas that are available, we pay for them. Innovation is selecting an idea and converting it into a consumer will prefer and you get paid for it. That’s the leadership job. That’s not a genius job. That has begun… We have five companies in America now and I have one in India. Selecting an idea, converting into a consumer preferring it and you make this social process the way hundred years ago Henry Ford made manufacturing as a repeatable process made that as a repeatable process. Major reason for failure is not having the right team leader. We don’t need a doctoral thesis on that. Selecting the right team leader is the key variable to take the idea all the way to the market. So Steve Jobs call that ‘end to end integral’. People don’t practice that. You start practicing this. When somebody calls me up and say, ‘Help us, I have fifty-six projects,’ he’s a CEO, I’ve known him, I say, ‘Charlie when you get fifty-six projects to six, call me.’ He says, ‘What do you mean?’ I say, ‘I know your company. You do not have fifty-six good team leaders; when you get to six, call me, we’ll do it.’ So the key variable is a very different process. We now cracked the code, it’s being done. We have two companies in India. They’ve begun to see results. One of them is seeing results in less than hundred and eighty days. I met this guy day before yesterday. He said, ‘You don’t know me.’ I said, ‘Of course I don’t.’ But he said, ‘I was there when you did this and I’m doing it now and I see results.’ So idea here is that you define a repeatable process.